Hello Muttering Minds, I feel too broken at heart to say the least and I’m hoping you can share my story…
What is love really? What’s the essence of love if at the end of the day family still has to decide who you should love? What is love if we still have to abide by the rules our forefathers made a thousand years before we were born?
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In 2016, I met this lovely dude, we kicked off as friends and so quickly started to share a special affection for each other. We fell in love without any friction and by mid-2017, we started dating. So much love to give, he’s cool, romantic, and sweetly annoying. Despite our silly fights and challenges, we always have ways of overcoming as a couple.
Dude knows how to tolerate my mood swings which could sometimes cross the border, but we cool. I don’t know if words do justice to how much I am in love with him but it is what it is. We’ve been through low blows, tear-jerking moments and for a fact, he makes me believe in the existence of true love that I cannot help but imagine spending the rest of my life with him. He’s a romantic.
Read: Finding Your ‘Spec’ and the Flipsides
At last year’s crossover (2020), I got to meet his family. Prior to the time, I usually felt nervous over the thought of “meeting the family” (I guess it’s normal). I always imagined most importantly if they’d like me, how to behave, you know these horror mother-in-law stories we hear. But his is different. The few days I spent with his family felt like I had known them for ages. The love was so genuine, it wasn’t one of those where you can smell pretense, No! I felt really welcomed. I could tell that love lives in his family.
Fast forward to meeting mine to discuss marriage… My man also had the same phobia, he decided seeing my mum first will be best as he believes she could talk on his behalf to my dad first. According to him, most fathers are usually not arms open at the first meeting, which I agreed to. Fortunately, he found favor in my mum’s eyes, she thought he was cool, so we decided to climb the step further to meet my dad.
My man visited home and got talking with my dad. I hail from the eastern part of Nigeria, I’m Igbo, and precisely from Imo state likewise my man. In my culture, when a man comes to seek a lady’s hand in marriage (popularly called ‘knocking on the door’), asking where he’s from, his origin, is a primary question.
Read: Scary Tales About Marriage; Should the Union Have An Expiry Date?
My dad inquired about his roots, the name of his village, and stuff. As soon as he mentioned the name of his village, my dad’s facial expression became sour. “We do not marry from this place! We do not marry your people, it is an abomination!”, my dad said without remorse, adding that he would make further investigation again about my man’s village. It happens that my man is an Osu (outcast).
Osu Practice In Igbo Land
If you’re not Igbo (even some Igbo’s don’t know this), the Osu caste system is as old as the Igbo tradition. The origin dates back to the era where Igbo villages were ruled by the laws of the earth Odinani. The deity known as Ala had some rules that must be obeyed (just like a country has its constitution). Those who broke any of these rules or were found guilty of grave offenses were cast away from the land as it was believed their presence will bring ill fortune to the village. The offenders were regarded as Osu. Sometimes the Osu’s could be used as slaves or sold for slavery or enslaved in shrines to serve the deities ruling the land and also if the community needed a human’s blood sacrifice for cleansing or during festivals, the Osu’s were used. Osu’s were also deprived of homes and made to sleep in shrines or marketplaces.
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The Osu’s were not allowed to have social interactions let alone marriage with the freeborns (non-offenders) as they are considered as bad luck. It is fondly said that whenever a freeborn marries an Osu, his/her life turns around for the worst. In modern times, some Igbo traditional rulers like the Obi of Onitsha in October 2018, made a move to ensure the Osu caste system is abolished. Also, some traditional leaders in Oguta Local Government filed a motion to end the madness, urging that people do not deserve to face the wrath that comes with the sins of their age-long ancestors. I also read somewhere that Nnamdi Azikwe while he was alive moved a motion for the abolishment in 1956 in the Eastern Nigerian House of Assembly but it was a fruitless motion.
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So far, some parts of Igbo land claim it’s no longer practiced but a greater number still hold it highly even though modernization has quenched the loudness surrounding it.
Imagine one person in your lineage committed a crime as far back as a thousand years ago and you still suffer the punishment/ discrimination in this 21st century. I’m broken, I’m confused, and I feel too hurt. My dad has refused to give ears to whatever concerns marriage to my man despite my man saying his family is not one.
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I feel depressed, betrayed, frustrated, and for the most of it, unloved by my family. My mother who described my man as cool no longer sees him as such, my three sisters except one have also turned their backs against me. They keep fuelling the fire urging that I must end the relationship with my man otherwise I will bring curses upon our family. I never imagined I was going to face something this grave. My man doesn’t mind going all out to ensure we get married. His family is also very welcoming and wants me but not without my father’s blessings.
What should I do? Should I follow love and face the consequences of being disowned forever by my family? Or follow family and lose love? I’ve never loved anyone as much as I love my man, I cannot process the thought of letting go and starting all over. Imagine a whole four years down the drain, It’s suicidal, I find it hard to process.
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I need help. If you’re reading this and have ever been at crossroads in deciding if to choose love or family (on the grounds of religion or culture), I need your advice. Maybe you’re an Osu too or you got married to one, please talk to me. Did anything bad happen to you? I need help, I can’t make this decision on my own. Do family blessings matter in a marriage? Is a father’s blessing important or overrated when it comes to marriage? If you were in my shoes, what would you do? I’ll appreciate your sincere comments. 👇👇
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When I got this mail, I was speechless. I could imagine being in her shoes, helpless, not knowing how to think or what to hold on to. Sometimes we cannot find the answers within us, we need people to give us their strength of thought. I understood why she shared her story. I’m trusting that the opinions here will be vital in her further steps. Thank you as you indulge her. Remember! No opinion is useless! Don’t feel there’s no point saying what you want to say because someone has said something similar. Every thought is worth more than a… Read more »
Hmmm this reminds me of a book l read one of Chinua Achebe “No Longer At Ease” the story about Okonkwo….. Actually this life is full of challenges whatever decision you takes you will still face another..you should be prayerful in same vain keep talking to your family that this cultural superstition is something of the past… Have a personal belief, with God at the centre of it He will surely choose the best for you..been with someone for many years is not a sure ticket that you must be together in the future this is how we the indomie… Read more »
Second time someone is making refrence to Chinua Achebe’s book and I feel even more ashamed that I haven’t read it😪.
Well, there’s a certain point (level of feeling) you get to in a relationship with someone, you cannot help fantasising spending the rest of your life with them. Sometimes its not even how long, could be the shortest span. But I understand you Bagudo, thank you 🤗
the story of Okonkwo, hmm. True talk Bagudo
Another reason to read! Got the soft copy yesterday 🕺💃
🤣🤣🤣 enjoy your reading
This is heavy and as shocking as it may sound with us having embraced Christianity, we still hold onto our culture. There is no easy answer to this, as something must be lost anyway you look at it. I would say pray, but prayer must follow action. While the family’s blessing is important, know that if you choose to go against it. It will be a battle, well it will be a battle none-the-less. Just that normally you will have the love and support of family. All that being said, sadly, you will have to make the decision as hard… Read more »
Thank you Vandy. I tell you, something has to give in this situation especially with her family sticking to their guns.
I probably am not supposed to go this route but I could not help but wonder what you meant by “… as shocking as it may sound with us having embraced Christianity, we still hold onto our culture.”
Are we meant to discard our culture after embracing Christainity? Is that what Jesus Christ taught?
P.S: Mind you, what culture simply means is who you are as a person
As humans we constantly learn and unlearn till we die, so who you are as a person is in constant test or change as you mature. Back to the point, i will explain: there are people that have mixed the practice of old with new, having in mind some of these old practices have African traditional origins, some even still have rites and rituals. At the risk of sounding like “an anarchist” where is the line drawn. For example this Osu system has it’s reasons which worked and i can’t fault their beliefs. But Christianity was founded on Jesus dying… Read more »
Yours is even a tougher situation. I’m in a serious relationship too and we are set to get married . He’s a muslim. I have met his family and they are welcoming. I know my family. They will most likely be against it when they meet him and find out he’s a muslim. I and bae have plans but yours is complicated because it has some things to do with ill luck and affecting your family. It boils down to your personal beliefs. If you believe there’s really a repercussion for getting married to an Osu, I’ll suggest you go… Read more »
Hmmmmm reminds me of Richard Templer’s book titled “Rules of Life”… one of the rules he stated is having a “Belief system”…He said that the world works according to an individuals belief system. So far, that has worked for me too.
Thank you Joy❤… hope we get wedding invites too 😅
It’ll be a great honor to have you ❤
Hoping to get an invite too 😂😅. I am really happy about your outlook on this. I hope you and your bae have a great time together in all of it.
🤣🤣🤣 we will do a mini Mutterers connect on her wedding day 🕺🕺💃🕺
Richard Templer’s books are 🔥🔥
I concur 🔥 🔥… It’s a delight to know we share a certain taste Khalid😊
I personally think it’s a wrong decision marring from an opposite religion. I use to think differently till I came across many marriages like that that are on the edge. The issues are in the future ( maybe 7years into the marriage). Its usually a tough conflict of interest in the end. Especially when it come down to which religion your children should be brought up in. His family trying everything possible to bring the kids to their school of thought, your family doing the same . His family influencing him to force it. Many many things… I dont advice… Read more »
How about we hope for the best and quit the generalizations. Just maybe she’ll fall in the one percent it works out for. Fingers crossed 🤗
To be very truthful, a lot more than one percent work out.
Living your life on maybe is a killer
I get you. “Certainly” should be appropriate for my sentence. Thank you ❤️
Like I advised the owner of the story, while your decisions are important, whatever you believe in ultimately decides your fate. Same way you’ve seen struggling or failed marriages btwn two people of different religions, I’ve seen some that work out exceedingly well and I’ve seen people from same church getting married and still struggle in the marriage. Your last statement exposes your bias about other religions.. You strike me like those people that believe anyone not practicing same religion as u is an unbeliever. What gives you the impression that your own religion is genuine? because ur pastor said… Read more »
Lol. Joy took the words right out of my head
The first time I ever heard of the Osu caste system was from a church member, she dated him for years and he really invested in her life and when he proposed wedding her family did their findings and discovered his family belonged to the caste system and she ended up leaving the relationship and got married to someone else. I was still in secondary school when we had this discussion but I could see hints of regrets although she tried really hard to fight back the tears. Not everyone is opportune to find the ‘LOTL’ but you did and… Read more »
😪😪 Thank you Bubu. I love to hold on to a string of hope on her behalf ❤
Thank you Bubu
dear poster, I really feel for you and I wish you this isn’t happening to you.
please know this, the blessings from family members, especially parents are what is regarded as the actual marriage. Every other thing is senrenren. It’s a mess! I know but you just need them to approve. The wahala that comes with following love and disregarding the opinion of significant family members might eventually break you apart.
Try to be open/minded and look at things from a clear angle.
it is tough but you have to be sure you both can handle whatever comes next.
True Tai especially when the parents have played very active roles in ones life.
There’s this fear that comes with going ahead with marriage without the parent’s blessings, your subconscious and even your consious keeps imagining that things will go wrong. And eventually when you go ahead to disobey and something goes wrong, you now begin to feel your parents were right. Meanwhile things might have as well gone wrong either ways. I don’t know if you get me😪
I totally understand and agree with you
“Meanwhile things might have as well gone wrong either way.”
This is something a lot of us have to deeply understand. We(me inclusive) like to make choices and almost immediately, we start wondering and looking back at the other options we didn’t take, rather than making the most of our current choice/situation
Exactly! A recent scenario which just happened this evening is with my mum. After close of sales today she started telling how she didn’t make sales as much and that she was even supposed to be in Church. She now said assuming she went to church now she would have been thinking her going deprived her of not making sales, meanwhile it was meant to be.
Thank you Khalid🧡
This is disheartening! First, I’d like to ask what do you believe in? If you believe what your father has said about bringing a curse to your family if you eventually marry the guy then there’s no point proceeding with marriage -just cut ties. Plus, you mentioned that your family members but one are against the union, do you still want to proceed? On the other hand, if you don’t believe in that age-long tradition, then proceed with your marriage. However, let’s bring in the ‘what-ifs’ and ‘what-not’: What if after your wedding something happens along the way and your… Read more »
Deep sigh! Thank you Nuella, you raised very important pointers. ❤
Sigh. I’m sorry moderator but I just have to do this. Dear Nuella, I really like your point of view and I respect your thoughts. But this statement strikes me some type of way: “It’s the 21st century but then Tradition, in this part of the world, hasn’t gone into total extinction.” If as a people, our traditions go to extinction, is this a plus or a minus for us? What then do we pass on to the coming generations? Foreign knowledge and traditions? When the question, “who are we?”, comes up, what would our response be? A particular saying… Read more »
Lol, you don’t have to be sorry. Your point is very valid Khalid👌
Reading this sentence👆 it dawned on me I got good rhyming skills…”Khalid &Valid” 🏃♀️🏃♀️🏃♀️🏃♀️
That proverb though… Sounds like what Chinua Achebe would have said. Great point Khalid
clarify this proverb @Valid Khalid until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt would always glorify the hunter.” am confused
I once read a story like yours on FIN (A page on Facebook to encourage and support ‘Females in Nigeria’). The lady found love but her family turned him down because he was an ‘Osu’, they pretended as though they had ended the relationship and after some months, they eloped to the United States and got married. The lady cut communication with her family and started her new life. Few years down the line, her siblings and mom saw she was progressing with her husband and kids via Facebook and no superstitious ill-luck was after them. They decided to reach… Read more »
Wow! Thank you so much Ucha, I’m happy she had a happy ending. I’ve realised that in life what we want will not always come easy. Sometimes we need to be aggressive and drag the bull by the horn. Strong will pays in the end.
I had to incite so much courage to comment here😢. Your story pricked my emotions in a hard way and I’m sorry you’re going through all of this💔. This is so relatable because I’ve watched people dear to me die for something likened to this. Someone I know closely got married to an Osu out of love. Her family and the entire village refused him when he came introducing himself to them. She went ahead to get pregnant for him, hoping it’ll change their minds. It became a thug of war, and they reached a compromise. They were willing to… Read more »
Hmmmmm now I’m speechless🤒🤒. I was about to give the same response I gave to Tai but then, this appears beyond me. So many ‘What If’s’ that makes positivity slim.
Hmmmm thank you for sharing AglassofJules❤
well said: but i quote, if i die happily well in four years its better than for me to leave 70yrs regretting and still want her back in my life, last last i would still say “I wish i marry ….”
Very true Wakey.
Hmmm!!! This sad story reminds me of my distant cousin, we all share same surname and guess what? I don’t fvcking care if im Osu… cos I know i am not shaaa… so this my cousin’s man during family introduction between his people and her family just suddenly brought up osu and said she’s Osu so he can’t proceed… imagine oo… i was mad hearing it when they told me because this is a relationship my cuz invested years into as well, she cried like a baby, my whole lawyer was in pain… her mom and we all were there… Read more »
I love your spirit St3ph and also love that your cousin got a “happy-ever-after”. It’s very unfortunate that asides religion, tradition is also a problem in this part of the world too. If all prominent igbo traditional rulers can come together and end this. All it takes is a United voice rather than one side agreeing and the other parties unwilling.
If you ask me, I’ll say this is as deadly as racism.
Personally, this issue of parent consent doesn’t freak me at all. Early on in my life, I began to drum it to my parent’s ears that, whoever I bring home for marriage, they have no choice but to accept her, and if they don’t, it changes nothing…cos, I will still go on with my decision. Aside my faith, and lies, nothing can stop me from marring the one I love. Her gge, her past and whatever, I don’t care. I feel, the parent consent is over hyped, cos at the end…it’s just you and your partner. Your present family will… Read more »
You’ve spoken very well Dosbambi.
Somewhere at the back at my mind I feel it’s more easy for men to stick to their standards as regards marriage whether their family likes it or not compared to the women. Or what do you think?
By the way since our last conversation I’ve been trying to overanalyze your name as I have never heard of it before. Is it Nigerian? Or a nickname?
Well, guess you are right. But, I feel…women need to start showing the strength they have, and stop being timid in this marriage thing. They keep suffering because they give in to everybody’s expectations and decisions, when it is their own life. On my name, it’s truly unique. Wherever, you see that name, as you might come across it on social media, and other poetic platforms, “it is I”. Bambi is my surname, while “dos” are the initials of the only three names, I know among the long list of names, given during my naming ceremony. So, I came up… Read more »
Hahahahah @ last sentence. Quite intriguing, I hope I am actually pronouncing it correctly (wish there was an audio plugin😅).
Like you I also wanted a Nickname in school, I was so desperate🤣🤣🤣.
In this post you’ll find my many silly nicknames 🤣🤣🤣👇👇
The universe almost always never gives a chance at true love, and you’re here being lucky but unlucky at the same time. We find love in difficult places, a freeborn could have loved you, but the universe decided to play it tricks again. Do you marry your partner and risk be ostracized and stigmatized in perpetuity along with him or succumb to age long tradition? Herein lies the conundrum. Thousands of people are suffering from the Osu stigma, and Generations of people who know nothing about such cultural and idolatrous practices are today suffering from the stigma; whether their forefathers… Read more »
You sure know how to place your comic relief Pain; the last paragraph made me smile 😅😅. I love your take on this, nothing much to say but Thank You on Anon’s behalf ❤
I’ve read the story, I’ve read the comments but this one summarizes all the important info. Fuck any advise against your relationship. Don’t be afraid living your dreams even if you go trough a nightmare.
Welcome Alex 🤗
Even with our embraced christianity, the Osu caste system is very much alive especially in the eastern parts. I am an indigene of Imo state too and this is almost exactly the same story with our Ada. This was her first love o. Dated the guy since she was in secondary school. But my dad said no he is Osu and it will never happen.
She is married now with a child… Thank God but we all could see how this really broke her that time.
I can imagine 😪😪😪 …thanks for sharing Ines❤
This is a very delicate matter, I never hear anyone talk about it, God bless you MutteringMinds. The truth about this issue is if you marry someone that is Osu or not, trust me, there’s nothing that’s going to happen. If you want to spend the rest of your live with the man, then by all means go ahead. I know a family member that was in this situation but the lady and her whole family are doing well in Italy, even though they supposedly disowned them and all. The issue is barbaric and has nothing to do with either… Read more »
😅😅 thank you storm. Your take is a breathe of fresh air really 🙇♀️🙇♀️. I appreciate this❤
I dunno how to read this without feeling anger……the origin of this is way back in the days before civilization even came if the osu caste system is still observed we might as well go back to a bunch of old traditions we used to have why leave some behind and carry others on?…. I’m sorry if I sound malicious but I can feel the writers pain from her words,if your parents are christians I suggest to speak to an understanding leader in your congregation that can help better explain things to them,I mean what’s the essence of getting born… Read more »
Hmmmm “If the osu caste system is still observed we might as well go back to a bunch of old traditions we used to have why leave some behind and carry others on?”
This!!!! Thank you Nkechi🧡
I’m a strong fan of true love, it’s so painful that you’re opportuned to find it and then it has to be surrounded by circumstances like this😣. Tbh, life isn’t fair. This is such a hard decision to make😣😣😣 but I personally would’ve married the loml
True love is hard to find and even after it’s found, a rose bed is not guaranteed😪
First of all, I don’t think you’d regret losing ur family that much since you’d be starting a new one. The only problem is the question of the guy really being worth it. Cos if he fucks up, there’s no where to run to. If he’s really worth it , I tell you , your family will get over it in a long run… and it would start from your mother . Lol. It’s not really a hard decision to me. If I was in your shoes , I’d go with who I love since the reason for not letting… Read more »
From the writers perspective, it’s seems evident he’s a great guy, let’s have some faith in that.
But mehn if he fucks up yo, it’ll be a disaster to be honest. I feel you Joshua.
It’s really a tough situation you are in but one thing is certain: God overrules in everything if we let Him in, so take it to the Lord in prayers. Another thing I’ve realised in life is that our parental blessings play a key role in our lives; most times too God uses them to speak to us. While the OSU system is very wrong in all entirety, I look at it that God might be saving you from a future problems in marriage cos all that glitters are not gold. Just go to God in prayers and also approach… Read more »
😄😄😄 I love the sound of “Brace up and win the war!!”… so soothing.
Thank you Eucharia❤
Lol it’s funny that in 2021 someone believes things like this. I know of an Eze in the same state that lived abroad, on becoming a king came back home and met a woman and fell in love. But kinsmen refused and he told them it’s either I marry her or you collect your Eze title. He insisted and married her and gave her authority in such a way that all those people that called her outcast most first come to her for permission before you inquire anything of him. Well money stops nonsense all of them that verbally abused… Read more »
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 this made me laugh. Truly every man has a prize. Thanks for sharing Sissy🧡
This isn’t strange to me st all being that I’m unapologetically OSU, but does that term depreciate my value as a person? No!!!. Osu caste system was a barbaric practice created by man and not God. So why is it then that some people are more “superior” than the other. In the olden days when the practice was still strict, if a Diala is seen talking,dining or evening shaking an Osu, then he automatically becomes an Oscar himself. So what is all this archaic drama all about?? We go to church and sit with an Osu, break bread and drink… Read more »
😅😅😅Asa welcome!! Been lowkey waiting for a comment from an OSU and here you are, being unapologetic!!! I love your energy and most importantly your take on this. Thanks for the insight❤
Firstly, I will like to ask this. Do you believe in Osu and it’s effect? If yes, my dear just follow your belief and end things with the guy. Though painful but it’s for the best. Because what you believe is what will work for you. But if no and like me, you are a believer of God and His word, Nne (lemme call you that as I’m also an igbo lady from imo state too) biko STAND YOUR GROUND! Find your self in prayer and at the same time keep convincing your dad. Things might not change immediately but… Read more »
🤣🤣🤣 indabosky Lady Tee, your energy is contagious. Thanks for sharing, your take is uplifting ❤
What am I even saying sef, I know a friend of mine way back from school that her parent claimed her man was an osu and wouldn’t allow them be together. Though I won’t approve of how this friend of mine handled her case. She left her parent and started staying with the guy and his family because already she is pregnant. From one child to another one. Until 2019 her family finally accepted the guy. Now they are legally married and doing so so well. This guy’s business is doing so well and my friend is living well too.… Read more »
😄😄 beautiful story! Thanks for sharing.
I know it’s hard but let’s understand something here…any marriage that is not supported by the brides biological Parents, you as a the groom should not go ahead with it. There are more things behind that refusal than we feel we know and can comprehend. Thank You.
Hmmmm! Different strokes for Different folks. I would have loved if you threw more light on your opinion though with emphasis on these “more things behind”.
hmm, just imagine years from now , you chose to listen to family… all your sisters happily married the love of their lives. now you are probably alone or married to someone that is loved by your family, but not loved by you.
Sometimes love isn’t enough… The fact still remains that you need your family in this life and marrying that man will make you loose that. If you have the strength for a life long battle… Then go ahead but if you know within you that you do not have that strength to battle till the end, then you’ll have to let him go.
Well said! Thank you🧡
This is my first time of commenting here as I have just found out that such great minds exist together like this and hope to keep following topics discussions here. Well, this is a sad story, I must confess, and I pray God gives her the wisdom in order to navigate this. However, I think there are two dimensions to look at this issue from. Firstly, it’s the crazy OSU caste traditional belief among Igbos which I think it’s bullsh*t. In my opinion, I do not think that the success or failure of that marriage will depends on whether you… Read more »
First, I’ll love to say a big welcome to you Georgyy and yeah, I look forward to you joining in our discussion going forward😄.
You pointed very brilliant questions here which are 90% applicable given the institution of Marriage. About what to tell the kids when their folks begin to taunt them, taunt them about what exactly? being Osu’s? Or coming from a dysfunctional home? I’ll appreciate if you clarified that.
Okay, what I mean is that, when she get married to this man, automatically it will be a dysfunctional home considering the controversial way in which she’ll get married to the man(without the parent’s approval and the excommunication from her people and possibly her root).
Now, merge that to the fact that the children she’ll have will automatically be called OSUs. Definitely, the kids will be victimised unless they’ll love somewhere far away from this part of the world. The question is, will she be strong enough to handle all these on her own?
Hmmm the word “automatically & dysfunctional”, not sure I agree with you. I’m sure you read other comments of people with success stories who got married without their parents consent (not encouraging this though). Hers can be good too.
Regarding the kids being stigmatised, I like to believe the coming generations will give no fuck about the Osu caste system😊.
Thank you again Georgyy
facere vel non facere. To do or not to do. From all indications,your family is Christian,and this kind of situation is very typical of non-traditional Christians. Even Christendom as we know it is mixture of what the historical Jesus intended it to be and the customs of the pagan worshipping Romans and Greeks. So,it isn’t unusual for a staunch Christian to hold on to strongly entrenched beliefs. This is not strange,this should not be condemned. Whether your father hasn’t done away with those beliefs,isn’t to be blasted. He has a right to. It’s his belief. The issue on ground is… Read more »
Well said Fisayo😄. I loved how you addressed the issue of Christianity and tradition too. Thank you